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Monday, 30 December 2019

RNZN Aircraft Carrier Proposal


Would folks, given the option to serve on our own Aircraft Carrier, improve recruitment and retention figures? Throughout the fleet and the other services.
Manned by three allies (RAN RN and RNZN)!! Gives three services a chance to maintain a strike force in the Pacific and South East Asia. Be cool to do Rimpac with our new ships.

Shopping list:

New QEII class Aircraft Carrier (33% UK build, 33% RAN Build and 34% RNZN build. Approximate cost to each of $2.1 Billion (NZ $$ - total $6,123,957,000) Gives the UK a foot in the southern hemisphere (and a UK sourced manning given their navy shrinking) and already have a trained workforce available
10 RNZAF F35B Lightning (all up cost to us of $1,120,000,000) and 15 RAAF F35B Lighning with possibly a UK share of another 20 F 35 Lightning II
3 x RNZAF 4x NH-90's and 2x Seasprites- 5 RAAF S-70A Black Hawk and 2x CH-47D Chinook ( no acquisition costs as all in service)
New Royal NZ Marines 100 for deployment by Helo or landing craft (four fitted) 200 RAN Marines. All dual purposed. All SAS units from NZ/Aus/UK can be carried as required as well.
New Zealand and Australian governments share fuel. Australia and UK funds maintenance.

Aircraft Carrier Range is 10,000 miles and speed in excess of 25 knots. ANZAC's do 27 knots and have a cruising range of 6,000 Miles. Do Carriers do Refuelling (RAS)
Possible name? How about something like HMNZS Te Waka o Maui or HMNZS Kupe??

Discuss.



Facebook feedback:

Greg Thompson Aren’t we already struggling to put ships to sea due to being under manned?
  • Thane W Zander That's why I opened with retention/recruiting Greg Thompson Our pop gun frigates aren't enough to serve on to foster retention. My other mode suggest UK involvement so maybe further afield deployments (in accompaniment with both frigates) A carrier (27 knots) would get to PI's quicker than Canterbury (slow at 19 knots) for Disaster relief.
    • Greg Thompson Thane W Zander that would work, need to do something otherwise we risk falling apart
    • Dale Forsyth There is a bit of a myth with the RNZN struggling with putting ships to sea due to manpower... people saying Aussie's sending saliors to help...

      UMMM no they were just standard cross-training, we send sailors to UK, Canada and Aussie... just s they send them here.


      The retention rate did drop for a minute when the NZDF had to do the purge and but this has settled down and is back to normal.
    • Michael Richards Dale Forsyth no, it hasn't settled down ag all. There are huge holes that are not likely to be filled in the near future. The purge as you put it has created big problems. And believe it or not, a lot of the ratings didn't join to go to sea!
    • Paul Holland Hornets can't operate off it. They require a CATOBAR (Catapult Assisted Take-Off Barrier Arrested Recovery) equipped carrier which the QE carriers aren't. CVs do undertake RAS especially fuel. I think that you'll find that it'll cost in excess of NZ$2 billion to acquire 12 F-18F Super Hornets. You have to include all the extras in the procurement such as the maintenance & sustainment contracts, training, manuals, simulators, etc., and they can account for up to 50% of the flyaway costs for all of the aircraft. At present the cost is looking at around NZ$2.4 - 2.5 billion.
      1
      Dale Forsyth Why do I think the Endurance 170 LHD is a good choice for the RNZN.

      http://nighthawk.nz/index.php?option=com_content...
      See More
      • Thane W Zander Dale Forsyth Sound suggestion.
      • Paul Holland I agree, the ST E170 is probably the best option available for the RNZN. It's about the right size, would be about the right price, has the capability set that we are looking at, has room for upgrades, would be a good diplomatic and political option.
        • Haydon Ditchburn It's not 1st April yet, is it..?? ðŸ˜‚
          3
        • Otene Reweti with an operational aircraft carrier don't you need to have a full range of support ships around her as well as submarines? or is that just in the movies lol
          2
        • Wayne Todd Pilots for the jets??
        • CJ Corbett How is the carrier going to go with popping down to Auckland or Campbell island to replenish DOC or to cruise around on fisheries patrol
        • Chris White NZDF looking at 2 x something like this I think. http://www.seaforces.org/.../L-800-HNLMS-Rotterdam.htm
          HNLMS Rotterdam L-800 Amphibious Ship Netherlands Navy
          SEAFORCES.ORG
          HNLMS Rotterdam L-800 Amphibious Ship Netherlands Navy
          HNLMS Rotterdam L-800 Amphibious Ship Netherlands Navy
        • Glenn Rowlands Would never happen, The Greens would stop any NZ involvement and renege on any deal made, Just like they did with ANZAC class 3 and 4.
          1
        • Thane W Zander Just wondering if Brexit is now a viable option going forward for us.??
        • Lee Muddle Nah, good idea, but the Brits and Aussies would dominate its use while we pay a third? Besides, it's all our eggs in one basket. One new Russian missile and that's that. More cooperation is good though...
          3
          • Thane W Zander One (or a few) well directed Russian missile could take our Armed Forces out in the blink of an eye as it stands. Mind you we'll need to know why they would in the first place??
          • Alan Smith Thane W Zander more likely a us bought missile would take it out fore our oil
          • Paul Holland There are other problems with this suggestion. What NZDF capabilities are you going to get rid of to fund this? There is the sovereignty issue where one party does commits to a course of action that one or both of the others don't agree with. How do you deal with that? The UK have shipboard nuclear weapons, how is that going to impact on it operating with NZDF personnel, equipment and in NZ waters? Is it in NZs best interest to be involved in such a capability? I can answer the last question by saying no. It would not meet any of the NZGs policy requirements that it sets for Defence.

            At the end of WW2 we made the mistake of taking cruisers, which was a political decision against the advice of the navy who knew that cruisers weren't what NZ required for the Pacific. We probably should've gone with destroyers and frigates. We were offered a carrier, but wisely turned it down, even though we had the FAA aircrew for it and the aircraft to fly off it. RNZAF F4G Corsairs and TBM Avengers all bought and paid for. It would have been an absolute drain on the Navy Dept funding and personnel.

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